Which came first?
|25.Jan.2008Hint: I believe there is a right answer.
Little girl, chicken or egg?
What has always disturbed me about going anywhere North of say…Georgia, is that people automatically hear a bit of a drawl in my voice (okay fine, so a twangy, hick-sounding drawl) and assume I lack all intelligence. When I say I’m from Texas, apparently I lose a few more IQ points. When I say I voted Republican in the last election, I am reduced immediately to a blubbering idiot.
I don’t make excuses for myself – I’m not an idiot. I am simply being grouped with people like that woman on the Discovery channel…you know, the one in curlers, with half her teeth gone, shouting about how her house “done flown away” right before her very eyes. “That thar tornaduh was a big’n!” she says as she relays the story of how she and her 10 poodles took video of the approaching tornado from inside the sliding doors of their fragile trailer home.
Yes, she’s an idiot. I agree. In fact at least half of Southerners, yes even Texans, want her off the TV.
As most of you know, I am a Christian. As do many Christians, I believe in Intelligent Design; specifically that God created the earth just like it says in Genesis. So, in response to the title of this blog entry…I believe the chicken came first.
I am not a theologian. I am not an academic. I am not a political debater. I do walk through life with both eyes wide open. I am interested in Science and what it reveals. I do not know all the answers to the questions I have from reading in God’s Word. I do not know all the answers to what the earth has clearly shown us through its layers.
I do not disregard evolutionary concepts as frivolous; I actually do believe much of it cannot be denied. So, I don’t get up in arms when someone doesn’t agree with my line of thought…it is when they disregard it that frustrates me. I’m not disregarding theirs. I want EVERYTHING LOOKED AT – and by everyone; openly.
But it isn’t that way. Those who believe in Creation are not given the same level of tolerance as those who believe in…well, everything else. Why is that?
Jeff and I have talked about this over and over – he more than me, because I just get tired. And so, I cannot tell you how excited I was to receive this video in my inbox this morning. I want to see this movie. I have seen Al Gore’s movie. I have watched endless scientific shows. I have listened to many different sides of the same argument. I want to know why scientific evidence that points to Intelligent Design is not given the same place as all other scientific evidence. Isn’t Science supposed to be neutral?
If you’re interested, click on the “Expelled Super Trailer” to watch the extended preview. Ben Stein, of course, is fabulous and you’ll get a bit of a chuckle at the very end if you hang in for it.
And if you’ve come this far…I’d love to hear your thoughts. I would. Not to tear them down – maybe not even to respond; just to listen…y’know, like you just listened to me.
42 Comments
mommyknows
I have always wondered — why do the two theories have to be exclusive of each other.
I have always believed that an omnipotent God created our earth and it’s laws of science and that ‘evolution’ is part of that creation.
In the movie, where they infer that the mud just ‘some how’ became life … I don’t believe it was ‘some how’ I believe that God made that ‘spark’ of creation and we did evolve from there. It was all in the plan.
Of course, this theory of mine (I am using mine loosely), means you have to give some thought and belief to the Day-Age Creationism Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-age_creationism).
As I don’t take the Genesis creation story literally (for many reasons, much to long to ponder and debate here (maybe in SFO this summer)), therefore, it’s easy for me to believe that both creationism and darwinism can co-exist.
Lastly, I think it is wrong to keep people from openly sharing ideas and theories. Even when they differ from your own.
My 2 Cents!
MK
(Who didn’t proof-read because she is tired and MUST go to sleep).
Angela
I watched the teaser first because apparently I can’t read very well. Then watched the extended trailer. I’m definitely interested. I believe in a higher power, sometimes known as GOD, and that he created the earth in seven days, regardless of if that is his time or ours. I’m actually interested to see this movie and what it has to say. I was taught by my organized religion to accept people and their beliefs. Not to condemn them. And so if people want to believe in Darwinism thats fine and dandy to me but this battle that is being waged in our schools etc is interesting. You know, I wouldn’t doubt that there is some evidence that says the world is how ever many millions and billions of years old, because God has his time. I mean I’m sure there is some other evidence but also think that some how it fits in with whatever God did. And I even more believe that people shouldn’t be bashed for their beliefs, as many Darwinists do. So, I’ll watch the movie and see what it has to say. Its interesting to say the least.
Angela
Mommyknows said: “it’s easy for me to believe that both creationism and darwinism can co-exist.”
I concur.
ashpags
I think the issue most scientists have with ID/creationism is that the “science” behind it doesn’t hold up under generally accepted scientific methods – and it has been looked at. A good explanation of this can be found at:
http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/322/intelligent-design-is-dead
So while ID/creationism is an interesting idea, it isn’t actual science, and thus shouldn’t be taught in science classes. (On a related note, I wish there were more religion classes. The three big monotheistic religions impact so much of what goes on in the world, I think people ought to know more about them. But that’s a whole ‘nother story, haha.)
I would agree with you, though, that people are too quick to jump from “I don’t agree with your beliefs about creationism/evolution” to “I think you are an idiot and not worth my time,” and I don’t think that helps anything. I do think it goes both ways though – people automatically assume that because I believe in the big bang and evolution, I am an atheist, which is very much not true.
So yeah, as someone who does science every day, I fully believe in the science of evolution and cosmology. But as a human being, I think everyone deserves respect. And now y’all can all have Aretha Franklin stuck in your head all day. =)
Laura
i agree with ashpags, creationism is not science, therefore it should not be taught in science class. I do support it being taught in a religion class. i do not think creationism should be taught at public schools in a mandatory class, i believe parents should be able to choose if their children learn that or not.
the whole creationism vs. evolution is so, so, so hard for me. i believe in god, i believe in science. i dunno, i don’t like thinking about it much, haha. but, yeah. those ideas should not be exclusive. i mean, maybe god and evolution worked together, you know what i mean? *sigh* unfortunately science and faith is a hard mix.
Lauri
as my 10 year old son said to me the other day … “Mom, why is it that everything we believe in (we are fairly conservative) is just dismissed as ‘wrong’ by tv, but they spend so much time arguing that everything that is ‘wrong’ is ‘right” … once I took the time to decipher that statement, I realized that he has already come to understand that conservatism is not necessarily an easy road to follow.
On a side note, I have been lurking for a while and will take a minute to say “thanks” for all of the awesome stuff you have been teaching me about trying to be a blogger!
chocolatechic
*read with southern accent*
Amen and amen, honey!
*Back to normal accent*
I can not wait to see this movie either.
MMM
I beleive the chicken came first. The Bible says God created the animals. That tells me there were chickens, not eggs.
Shannon
ok the first part made me laugh than it got deep and you know that after not breathing all night about a cpanel can do strange things to one’s mind. I’ll have to come back with my waders one I figure out how to set up this wordpress. It will be fine, it will be fine, breath in, breath out…….
Aileen
I’m a northerner that lived in the south for 10 years (and loved it!!) and believe me, when people found out I was a yankee, I’m sure I dropped in just as many intelligence points as you did. But I like to think that once they got to know me, my popularity went through the roof!! ;-)
At least you’re not like that one woman from Wife Swap. I don’t know if she was a southerner or not…but she was mighty scary… screaming about how she was a “GOD WARRIOR” or something to that effect…
As for what I believe in… I believe that everything is exactly the way it’s meant to be and I try not to overthink it, but just enjoy it.
“Class…anyone… anyone… something d-o-o economics… VOODOO economics…”
Jeana
Yeah, I can’t think of a good comment, all I can do is nod and say, “Yeah!” This was much better thought out than my post today on a related topic. The chicken, not creation.
TonniG
Check out this website:
answersingenesis.org
Lots of science… lots of creationism!
Toni
I was raised to believe that creationism and evolution were mutually exclusive. I do NOT believe that now. I know that they can coexist with balance. However, I am not necessarily surrounded by people who think the same thing and sometimes that can be difficult. I long ago learned not to argue as no one really wins there. Sometimes people are just not ready to have their eyes wide open. I look forward to the movie and appreciate your INTELLIGENT entry. :-)
I am a yankee who used to get grief from the southerners. Then I moved to the south and got grief from my northern friends. Now I live in the west in neutral territory. :-)
Toni
BTW, I did NOT mean that people who don’t embrace the creationism side don’t have their eyes wide open. I know there are many who have studied and come to a conclusion that excludes creationism. I was talking about the people who aren’t interested in looking at all sides of the equation.
Tempered Woman
First off- thank you very much for that trailer! I can’t wait to send it to all my friends. I love Ben Stein- isn’t he great??
I personally never apologize for voting Republican. I’m proud to be an educated voter who believes in something. That said- I’m also very proud of the fact that I am open and understanding of different viewpoints. I not only respect our right to disagree in this country- I embrace it. I love LOVE a good debate. Unfortunately, I have found that when people start screaming about close minded Republicans what they really mean is- why can’t you see how wrong you are. The people who demand you be open minded are usually anything but.
One of my all time favorite movies is Contact (gawd I love Jodi Foster and Matthew McHunky). They tackled some very similar issues. But my favorite was when Matthew’s character addresses the fact that she is an atheist (which she feels only a true scientist can be). “Someone who honestly thinks the other ninety five percent of us suffer from some form of mass delusion.” In my opinion, scientists who aren’t open to intelligent design in the debate think they are smarter and know better than the rest of us and can better protect us from our “delusion.” Well I pretty much feel the same way about the democratic party- we aren’t capable enough to take care of ourselves and be responsible and we need the government to make our decisions for us.
I think science can’t stand the fact that they don’t have definitive answers one way or the other. Science is cocky- it looks to find the answers in everything and when it doesn’t, it digs its heels in and argues for their own best case scenario. We still can’t explain how people can perfectly function with only half a brain (as a result of encephalitis at a young age), we still can’t explain how people can suddenly heal when given a death sentence from cancer. Uhm, if you are really bored you can be a total nerd and check out websites devoted to just this issue:
http://www.jupiterscientific.org/sciinfo/gusp.html
Sorry for such a long comment- but you hit a button for me- some things I feel very passionate about. My blog isn’t this serious so you gave me the opportunity to put on my big girl panties for a second- thanks!
Gingembre
Well, the only thing that makes “strict Genesis” reading understandable to me is the way Angela put it: God has his own time. Looked at that way, why do we put *our* definition of a “day” on God? In that vein, then, the world could only be 15 or maybe 20 God-days old…and then that can make sense to me. Otherwise, although I can understand Intelligent Design (my beliefs here are similar to mommyknows I think), the subset of people that refuse to believe *any* evidence of evolution thoroughly perplex (and at times disturb) me.
However, although I agree that the two concepts are not mutually exclusive (hey, life starting at all is pretty much a straight-up miracle no matter how you look at it!), I agree with the above commenters that creationism is *not* a science (there is no way to test the hypothesis, y’know?) it should not be taught in a science class room. That very firstest spark of life? Well, science can’t answer that question.
The only thing I have a problem with are people that a) want classes to teach a specific religion to my child without my approval, and b) want to remove evolution or other science topics from science class because of their desire to promote religion (and not have anything conflicting it in the school) to their children *and mine*.
Ren
I do not believe that creationism and evolution have to be mutually exclusive. To believe in one does not mean that you have to completely discount the other. It is black and white thinking that causes all the trouble. I look forward to the movie.
From your post… Yes, she’s an idiot. I agree. In fact at least half of Southerners, yes even Texans, want her off the TV.
As most of you know, I am a Christian
How ’bout a little Christian compassion for the trailer bound toothless? Did anyone else find this a rather jarring transition of thought?
Melanie
Amen, sister! Add my southern accent to that, y’all! I’m a Christian in Mississippi and that was a great post!
Sleeping Mommy
Really interesting. I took a graduate course last semester in the History of modern American Culture and I think we spent at least two months on science alone. Science is such a huge part of our culture. It has permeated nearly every aspect of our lives throughout the twentieth century.
Did you know Darwin wasn’t the first to come up with the idea of ecolution? The basic idea of gradual change (which I think is plausible) was found throughout each branch of the sciences. Darwin’s contribution was to the theory about the mechanism of evolution, Natural Selection. Survival of the fittest. Adaptation according to the environment etc. But the arguments against natural selection (and there have been many) is that there isn’t any evidence to back it up in the fossil record. All you have left are bones. The tissue is gone and so the theories regarding evolution have huge gaps in them.
I think that’s where God comes in. Where Intelligent design enters the equation.
My dad was a religious fundamentalist. We talked for hours when I was a kid and I finally convinced him that history tells us that many of the stories throughout the bible were handed down through the generations orally. Furthermore there is evidence that the meanings of words have changed over thousands of years.
How do we really know how long a day was during the time of Genesis?
We can’t. We weren’t there. Perhaps? Perhaps it was thousands or even millions of years.
OMSH
OH! Good discussion…thank you!
Ren – You wrote: “How ’bout a little Christian compassion for the trailer bound toothless? Did anyone else find this a rather jarring transition of thought?”
And? You are right – it is incredibly sarcastic but “idiot” was a poor choice of words.
Just so you know, that was a very broad stereotype of what I’ve seen over and over…the media selecting probably the poorest representative to detail a natural event and putting it on the air for all of us to wince at.
Sleeping Mommy
UGH EVOLUTION not ECOLUTION. Dude. It’s been a morning. Any other typos and grammatical lapses, please just be kind and understanding.
It’s been one of those weeks.
Sleeping Mommy
Dude. And I meant how long a day was for GOD during the Creation story of Genesis.
Carry on. I’m leaving now.
Michelle
I like it when the lady said in reference to the ‘believers’ that they are “distracting us from what’s importaant.” Wow. Pretty bold. Who gave her the authority to decide what is important?
And then I really liked it when he said “We tolerate free speech in every other form.” It’s true. Many other sections of society get free speech and alot of press, we just get squashed.
At the end he said that those of you who have a stake in this debate probably should not watch the movie. I am an educator, and he included me in that group. I will be seeing the movie. I feel I am able to show compassion and love to students who need it partly due to my beliefs.
I went to a Christian University and have had discussions as you and your husband have.
I also agree with you that they get the poorest representative to detail. I think at times they do that for Christians as well. Some well-meaning fanatics cause us alot of grief. We are educated and can have rational thoughts, as well.
Ok, I’m done! Love the blog, btw!
Kristen
My personal feeling (and what I am teaching my kids) is that everyone is allowed their opinion. I love to study religions, I’m just not a believer of any of them. I do not think that ID can be proven using scientific methods (you have to take it on faith at some point), therefore it should not be taught in a science class. A religion class, a social studies class, fine. But not a science class.
My Physical Geography teacher actually stated it quite well the other night. We were looking at how the universe/Earth was made and he stated that he was not trying to demean anyone’s belief, was not trying to tell them that they were wrong, and was not trying to convert them to his way of thought. He told us that what he was teaching was just the best scientific theory that fit all the information that we have at this time. He didn’t expect anyone to believe it, he just expected everyone to know it so that he would be able to use the information to teach the class.
I consider myself an agnostic. I was raised Baptist for a while (dad), Catholic for a while (mom), and Presbyterian for a while (neutral ground). My mom has stated on occasion that I was expressing my agnosticism when I was 4 years old. Not generally a good thing when you are going to a Catholic school.
Pam
Well, I am north of Georgia, and I won’t judge you by your accent because I suspect you might think I have one of my own. And I also voted Republican in the last election, and have folks who think I am an idiot too. I know the chicken came first. And I know I like reading here. I suppose it’s posts just like this that keeps me coming back. As for that lady in Texas with no teeth, she’s not that bad, give her some slack, maybe her dentures blew away in the tornaduh, and really, she did just lose her home ;)
You crack me up woman, just make me smile every time I stop by here. And by the way, you so have me saying “Oh my stinkin heck” (in my northern accent)
Angela
I went to a religious university, and we had to take 14 hours of religion classes over the course of our degree. And not all was just scripture. I wish I’d had time to take the religions of the world class.
Anyway, I agree that since creationism isn’t science it shouldn’t be taught in the classroom. Thats where parents come in. You know… To. Teach. Their. Kids. I believe that about a lot of things. I would support my kid being taught about religions, the history etc (though we all know it would be skewed about each one). I’d want to know about it and when it was being taught and being able to sit in on it. But I think kids would benefit from it.
bethany actually
You know, I like listening to other people talk about this subject, but I’m afraid I have little to contribute. I believe God created everything. I don’t know exactly how He did it, and it doesn’t matter to me that much how He did. Even if tomorrow someone found incontrovertible proof that Darwinism (that is, evolution through natural selection) were 100% true, it wouldn’t change my faith. I agree with Blaise Pascal that reason can only take you so far, and that the truly reasonable person knows that she can never know everything.
Did all of that make me sound like a pompous twit? It probably did. :-)
mamalang
I, too, don’t believe they are mutually exclusive. I don’t necessarily have a problem with ID not being taught in school…but I have problem that it can’t even be presented as an alternative that some believe in. And I think that we are going to naturally select ourselves into extinction.
Steph
Just my two cents on it – it doesn’t matter to me Who, if anyone, put all of this into play. The creation is glorious, and that is enough to fill even the saddest, black and tarry heart with just a tiny sliver of wonder. Yes, even mine.
Having said that, I, like so many others, don’t believe creationism v. Darwinism to be mutually exclusive propositions.
Of course, I’m very…erm…agnostic when it comes to matters of religion. I believe in God, and I believe we ought to be good to each other. Beyond that? It’s all just details.
AmyL
I believe that science does support Creation more than is publicly accepted. The more things are studied, the more we learn. One example given by the ID people that I haven’t heard evolutionists refute is the notion of irreducible complexity. There are systems in the human body that depend on one another. Why would a completely useless element evolve in isolation? It makes no sense. When you look closely at nature you see order, not chaos. That speaks of a Divine Designer to me.
Of course, if someone else wants to believe differently, more power to them. I don’t insult those who disagree with me and I appreciate it when that favor is returned. Sadly, that’s not the case in today’s world. I am so looking forward to the film! Thanks for sharing it with us.
Mrs. Wilson
I am SO WITH YOU. I posted about that Expelled movie a little while ago CLICK HERE. I haven’t looked too much into evolution or anything because I believe in the Creator of heaven and earth and if anyone wants to try to explain it, good for them. I know the truth and nobody and nothing is ever going to change that!!
But who came first? The little girl or the egg? Did the created chicken lay an egg before God created man and woman? Something to think about … hehe
Great post!
Mrs. Wilson
Oh and I SO LOVE your little girl’s hair. It is absolutely gorgeous.
Mrs. Wilson
Where the stinkin’ heck (hehe) did my first comment go? I don’t know. I think it got lost in the last 23 seconds and I don’t know why.
Anyway, I wrote that I am SO WITH YOU and that I know that there is a Creator who made the heavens and the earth in just six days. Nobody and nothing will ever be able to explain exactly how God did it. They can try, but they will fail.
Who came first though, the little girl or the egg? Did God’s chicken lay an egg before God created man and woman? I’m not sure. Something to think about, hehe.
I posted a little while ago about this Expelled movie too:
http://www.heymrswilson.com/2008/01/world-without-god.html
nancypants
Go sister!! I’m cheering…
erik
Okay, since you’re asking, let me share my thoughts.
Contrarily to public opinion here, I do not think anybody is stupid when they’re American, Southern, Christian or Texan. But I admit to drawing the line at voting Republican. Maybe I find that not stupid, but rather somewhat offensive.
Not that I’m crazy about the Democratic party either. I’m a leftie. I believe in equal chances for all and I believe that the authorities should look after all their people. Things like health care or social security are too important to be left to enterprises that need to make profit. So naturally, I can’t really support either of the two big American parties, which are both politically rihgt wing, and I strongly dislike their political system that seems designed to keep third parties out forever.
But over the last couple years, the Republicans have crossed the line from being simply a party that’s diametrically opposite to my views to a party that’s just wrong. So wrong.
Stealing the elections is wrong. Starting a war is _always_ wrong. Starting a war for a forged reason is incredibly wrong. (The US had WMD, not Iraq). And proclaiming you’re representing the free world is propaganda. I hear so many similarities between the speeches of George Bush and Osama. Both are so sure that they are right and the other party is wrong and both have God at their side. And I don’t fall for the propaganda of either.
(And of course I do not think Bush is as evil as Osama. But he’s trying hard…)
Add to that the growing influence of radical churches and it’s enough for me to now support the Democrats which I really don’t even like (I have seen Fahrenheit 911 and it was a terrible political pamphlet, not a documentary).
I said it is fine if somebody is a Christian. But to me religion is something spiritual, not something political. Faith should not take over politics. Or science. Or other parts of life. The law should never, ever be based on the Bible. Because the law is there for all citizens, some of whom prefer to use the Koran, or whatever other school of thought, as a guideline.
Look at the film Jesus Camp. That’s people who try to force their view upon everybody. And they have been working to have their corrupted view of religion take over politics as well.
You’ll understand that I also object to creationism. Religion should be about faith in God. About personal spiritual life. The Bible doesn’t say anything about science. Genesis is a very interesting collection of myths. As is Norse mythology, for example. And on a spiritual level it can all be true.
But creationists abuse the Bible as a scientific work, which it is not.
Maybe I shouldn’t care because I’m not even from the US – but maybe I should care because the Republicans have been a threat to world peace (oh, since when did Jesus say it’s okay to start a war? Shouldn’t we turn the other cheek? just a thought…) and I really hope for a change. Actually, if Obama becomes the candidate, I will really support the Democrats this time, unless a really good candidate pops up in the meantime.
erik
AmyL
Erik,
:) My Christianity is the structure from which all decisions are made whether they’re parenting, financial, personal, behavioral, educational, and even political. There is guidance for all of those areas in the Bible if you look. And yes, even war. Remember that Jesus and God are one and the same, and if you look especially in the Old Testament you see quite a bit of pretty violent stuff. Jesus wasn’t a pansy. :)
Some people view Genesis as mythical, others do not. The great thing is that both parties can get eternal salvation regardless of their stance on that point. I choose to believe in the Bible as literal on the Creation thing.
As for politics, I often vote Republican not because I approve of most of their behavior (politicians = liars most of the time) but because I’m choosing the least of the evils across the broadest spectrum of issues that I can. Just food for thought.
Mr. OMSH
Erik,
I love your logic. I just disagree with it.
Regarding your ‘spiritual matters’ comments, go to these websites:
http://www.answersingenesis.org
http://www.equip.org
I believe you will find more than ample material at these sites that will open your eyes and refute our culture’s influence(s).
Christianity is not religion. I once heard that religion is man’s way of reaching up toward God; Christianity is God’s way of reaching down to man. Christianity means that one is a new creation–literally in a spiritual sense. As a new creation, you are affected by this change in EVERY way; we continue, however, to struggle with the ‘inner man’–our sin nature.
About the Bible not being scientific. Hmm…First, what facts in our modern times counter anything in the Bible? What about archaeology…cities and sites mentioned in the Bible. Anything in the Bible proven incorrect? I would encourage you to watch a video or read a book by Lee Strobel, titled “The Case for a Creator.” An example: Astronomers (i.e. ‘scientists’) are coming to understand the positioning of the Milky Way and how life on earth would not exist if it were not in the exact angle and positioning in space that the galaxy is in; this position by the way, permits us to simply see (e.g. through Hubble) other galaxies, etc. There are gobs of examples of these facts that lead one to believe in creation–intelligent design. I would also encourage you to listen to “The Bible Answer Man” (the man who runs the equip.org site) radio show (Google it). This is a call-in where any “religious” question is acceptable. The answers and facts will amaze you.
My underlying philosophy is this. If you are truly seeking truth…it will find you. If you are putting out your opinion based on popular, unfounded “facts”, you will eventually be found out or proven a fool.
I apologize for coming across as mean-spirited, if I have done so. Showing love is one of my greater weaknesses (ask OMSH). There are few things I am too passionate about–two of which are those hostile against the Lord, and those who adhere to illogical popular opinion. Oh, and politicians (AmyL, they’re “socialized sociopaths” technically).
One or two last things. There are times when war is justified. I agree with you, however, on this Iraq ‘conflict.’ We are not there to win; we are not there for a justified purpose or reason. If the Middle East had no oil, we would have no soldiers there now. I’m a veteran myself; I love this country and would die for this country. I fully support the men that are there now, because that’s their orders. I do not support the president’s decision to send them.
Yes, Jesus said turn the other cheek. He was speaking at the individual level on the issue of forgiveness when you are offended by another. War, on the other hand, is a function of the government–to protect its population. Similar to the concept you promoted for welfare and social services. I find it interesting where you draw your line in the government’s role/responsibility.
By the way, from what country did you come to America? Why? Is the USA better to you, better for you than your native country?
Regarding the political parties in America…I’ve never known either party to promote: 1) a humble, unpromoting person, 2) someone who does not have pathetically wealthy friends, 3) someone who is not pathetically wealthy themselves, 4) who lives out in their lives the social reforms or ideals they preach/promote themselves (I guess I am referring to that white Democrat who talks smack about helping the inner city black single mom, as he himself drives around town in a Hummer or limo, voting himself a raise in Congress that is more than what the single mom makes in a year, spending more money campaigning than a third world country’s gross national product, flying from city to city, and eventually living on a retirement that annually exceeds the average person’s lifetime income–okay, I made that part up), and 5) votes according to what their constituency desires, and 6) is not a career politician. If you are interested, you should check out our founding fathers’ design and intent for political offices.
I, like AmyL, tend to vote Republican because they tend to be the lesser of two evils.
I could go on and on. Sorry OMSH (and readers) for the length.
Steph
Mr. OMSH -
I found one quote of yours particularly interesting — “those hostile against the Lord”. I’m wondering why this was a part of your response, as I saw no one evincing hostility towards God or Jesus.
Were you stating a general dislike of this attitude, or do you feel that Erik’s comment expressed hostility? I’m genuinely curious because I’m wondering if a failure to be Christian equates to being “hostile against the Lord,” IYO, as I saw nothing even slightly hostile in Erik’s response.
OMSH
Steph – I’ll point him back this way, but no, I don’t believe that was targeted at anyone. It seems he was just sharing what he was passionate about.
Though I wouldn’t dare speak for him – so like I said…when he’s awake I’ll point him back this way. :)
Steph
OMSH – you’re a better wife than me. I feel free to speak for Bill all the time. :grin:
Mr. OMSH
Steph–
My reference is taken from Matthew 12:30, where Jesus says, “Anyone who is not with me is against me, and anyone who does not gather with me scatters.” He’s talking about the kingdom of God. He’s talking about how divisive He is. The ironic piece here, however, is that He drew others to Himself through His love. Jesus was always matter-of-fact about the ratification of people’s decisions here on earth–that is, how their beliefs and decisions, sealed up their eternity. His heart was broken over it (like in His feelings toward ‘Jerusalem’ before His death), but He never came out and was ugly about it.
I was not referring specifically to Erik. I was speaking to the attitude and ignorance that the perspective holds. Referring back to the Matthew quote, people cannot ‘straddle the fence’ on who Jesus is. THAT part is black and white, and simple. I used the word ‘hostile’ earlier to mean those folks who are on the other side of fence from Jesus.
Steph
Mr. OMSH -
Thank you for answering. My own beliefs differ from yours, but I understand and respect why you believe the way you do, and I certainly respect your right to believe it.